High range Issues? =/

[Trombonium]

Hmm, okay, I play Euphonium (well, trombone player doubling on Euphonium) and I've noticed something that happens in my high range.

We have this piece where the euphs have a little solo that goes up to high G (3 ledger lines up). What I've noticed is that I can barely hit that note after a run of high notes (like high Eb's, high D's, etc.). I think the cause of it is that I always tighten the corners of my lips tighter and tighter as I go up the range (isn't that what you're supposed to do?) and when I get to that G, the corners of my lips are so tight that either:

A. I'm not blowing the air fast enough

or

B. They have been tightened too hard to the point to where I can't play the note.

So, what do ya think? Any suggestions?

[bandnerd525]

i have the same issue. i play euphonium, but i have trouble with runs of high notes for those same reasons.

please, if someone have any advice, it would be appreciated. for both of us.

[Deleted]

Wow, here I thought I just suck. I think your lips get used to one partial and don't want to go back up.

I would say that even when you have plenty of air, force it out like you're running out. I guess I kind of stumbled upon this when I got done with the trio from Stars and Stripes with a stomach ache from doing it, but damn if it doesn't work. A different mouthpiece might do some good...I have a knockoff Megatone that I can go high on and that allows for switching between partials very easily.

[Trombonium]

Feb 19, 2009 20:02:24 GMT -5 @oscarisamazing said:

Wow, here I thought I just suck.

What? What do you mean?

[Deleted]

I thought that I had that problem because of my lack of skill.

[Trombonium]

Feb 19, 2009 23:02:04 GMT -5 @oscarisamazing said:

I thought that I had that problem because of my lack of skill.

Ah, so does that mean that you thought you had this problem due to a lack of skill, but once you found out someone else had this problem, you didn't feel that way anymore? or something like that? =/

Feb 19, 2009 20:02:24 GMT -5 @oscarisamazing said:

I would say that even when you have plenty of air, force it out like you're running out.

Thanks! I'll try that out tomorrow.

[trumellotonium]

The problem could be overtightening. If you tighten your lips too much (or use pressure from the mouthpiece, but that's usually not a problem with low brass) your lips can't vibrate. Air is the key. Work on mouthpiece and free buzzing would be my recommendation. You eventually get a feel for it (I recently reached high F [above 3rd ledger in treble) on mello after a few years of working on it), but it's all in the air. Also make sure your corners aren't pulling back out of the mouthpiece as they tighten, as this will cause air to leak and you'll have no chance of hitting the high notes, much less having any tone.

[bandman001]

All the observations above are pretty much dead on I think. I play trombone in band and euphonium for marching band. I find it easier to go high on the euphonium, but it still took work to get there.

Mouthpiece pressure is a very common thing to do when you go high, don't let yourself fall into this trap or it'll be really hard to get away from it, and you'll ruin your embouchure and endurance if you do that for a long time. I found that having a solid low register (low F down into the pedal range) helps with the high register a lot.

Also, I found that flutter tonguing up scales helps get the air support (go until you have difficulty getting the note to speak). Start on a 'D' scale and go up in half steps. You could also try glissing on the trombone from a 7th position 'A', 'D', or 'E' to the first position note to set your self up in that partial.

One more thing is to keep the corner's of the mouth down. A smiling embouchure doesn't make it easier or give the tone you want.

Just keep in mind that it is harder to go higher and it takes alot of time to train your muscles to obtain constancy and control up in the stratosphere.

[noxcuses]

Feb 22, 2009 19:40:08 GMT -5 bandman001 said:

All the observations above are pretty much dead on I think. I play trombone in band and euphonium for marching band. I find it easier to go high on the euphonium, but it still took work to get there.

Mouthpiece pressure is a very common thing to do when you go high, don't let yourself fall into this trap or it'll be really hard to get away from it, and you'll ruin your embouchure and endurance if you do that for a long time. I found that having a solid low register (low F down into the pedal range) helps with the high register a lot.

Not to confuse anyone but mouthpiece pressure is going to increase as you go higher. It is just something that is naturally going to happen. Most teachers tell students not to use mouthpiece pressure to go high because then the student will jam the mpc into their mouths and could potentially injure themselves. The amount of extra pressure that is actually needed will, of course, depend on the individual player.

Just remember this:
To play high, you need to use faster air.
To play loud, you need to use more air.
There is a difference between MORE air and FASTER air.
Let's use the Bb in the treble staff as an example. Say that you want to be able to play the Bb above that. You can either keep the aperture (the opening in the mouth) the same and blow twice the amount of air (which will of course, speed the air up), or you can use the same amount of air but make the aperture smaller.
Now, if you just blow a TON of air through a small aperture right away, your muscles are not going to be able to handle it and you will not get the note out. Instead, you will just get a lot of fuzz (which is often the result of your top lip sliding up above your teeth...it's a little hard to buzz teeth haha). So there are two ways to approach the expansion of the high range:

The first way, and the way that I like better, is to be able to get the notes out, and then gradually work up the volume level. This means that when you begin to play a new note, you may not be able to play it louder than a piano at first, because your muscles will not be used to it. To do this, focus not so much on the AMOUNT of air you use, but instead on the size of the aperture. As you go higher, try to almost roll the top and bottom lips in simultaneously (but don't roll them in all the way, as in over the teeth. Bringing the lips in, especially the top, ensures that they will not "fly open" from the air, exposing the teeth). Try to relax as much as possible, and blow good, full, air, but don't try to overly force it out. Do scales up and down 3 times in each key as high as you can play, using this method (and then try to go higher!). If you do this consistently every day, you will have a solid high range in no time, but don't expect to be able to play loud up there quite yet.

The second way seems to be preferred by a lot of teachers, because it gets the air moving (and many times the student is not moving their air enough in the first place, so with those students, taking this approach will give the same effect as following the above instructions). But this approach involves playing long tones at a very loud volume in the high range. Basically, play each note three times, for 8 counts each (or the number of counts you choose), resting for 8 counts in between each time. Go as high as you can go, not worrying about sound quality - strive for a really loud volume. Push yourself and try to go farther than you think you can and then stop. This should be the last thing you do in the day (besides a good LOW warm-down afterwards). It takes longer to develop the range this way, but when you do develop it, you'll already have the ability to play loud (though playing high and soft is often a challenge for people who use this approach).

I like the first one for two big reasons: the first being, you HAVE the notes THERE. Let's face it, it sucks when you have a piece that goes up to a note that's just out of your range. By having the range there, you know you can play those notes, and therefore your repertoire is not limited by your range, even if the note doesn't come out very loud. Also, you learn to play soft and high this way from the very start. Those who take the second approach often have a butt of a time playing soft because the only way they know to play high is just to blow blow blow. With the first method, you've already learned to control your air, and as you work to expand your dynamic range, you will easily be able to play any piece any way the composer asks (and you won't be getting nasty glares from the conductor when the strings are at pianissimo and you have to come in on a soft high Bb).

If you've read this far, then congratulations. Now go practice!

[bandgeek101]

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Your lips will get stronger and you'll be able to stand the high notes longer. Keep the air moving and blow upward in the mouthpiece.

[the_sousabone]

The one thing I've found if I continually miss a note, is to aim for the next partial above it. It's really kind of logical, you're trying to play a G you're probably landing on the D when you crack, so aim for the B, you'll crack and land on the G. Then just do it without a crack in it.

[rockitprimejive]

Everyone I've talked to has had this problem. Just blow harder and relax a bit more. it is so hard switching to a smaller mouthpiece, but it really just takes practice