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Post by alrec on Mar 1, 2006 23:30:09 GMT -5
(cries) I have heard of washingtons greatness, but sadly i live way to far away, and theres barely 3 bassoonists in a population of close to 100 000
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Post by Bassoon4Life on Mar 2, 2006 0:19:13 GMT -5
Seriously I wish we had those kind of things around here. There is a Double Reed Camp... I suppose that would be fun.
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Post by alrec on Mar 4, 2006 22:31:10 GMT -5
that would be
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Post by alrec on Mar 20, 2006 22:19:56 GMT -5
Ok....I need help with my cra**y comercial reeds.
the 2 that would be good are making a wierd foggy buzz when i play d and E, and i have already checked the fingerings and horn.....
naturally the one that came out really good cracked 2 days after i got it......and wont play high very well......any suggestions (its only medium hard, and im used to the strength) (the crack was vertical....so it dosent hamper too much)
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Post by bluebassoon on Mar 20, 2006 22:38:57 GMT -5
Is the butt of your reed leaking? Is it too dry? This could cause a buzzing.
You can test the reed for leaking on the bocal by soaking the butt of the reed, putting it on the bocal while the bocal is not on the bassoon, plugging both holes that the reed is not connected to, and blowing into the reed. If you hear a hissing sound, the reed is leaking. To keep it from leaking on the bocal, it is possible to wrap a small piece of paper around the bocal before putting the reed over it.
As for cracked reeds, the bassoon teacher I had in high school would occasionally put clear nail polish over a vertical crack in the reed, if it was at the back of the reed. He then would file down the extra nail polish once it dried to get it as much off as possible so that it didn't effect the reed's sound too much.
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Post by alrec on Mar 21, 2006 17:27:16 GMT -5
we used nail polish on the thread when mine started coming undone....the smell was far from charming.
i think i have tried that......i was doing the pop technique tho...... something new tho (sucking the air from the reed.....pushing the lips closed, and pulling it out......if it makes a pop your good) (while blocking the end with your finger)
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Post by javelin on Mar 21, 2006 20:53:11 GMT -5
I am having bassoon reed troubles as well.
So my real first reed just died on me about two weeks ago. It was fourth months old and originally a medium-hard. I mistakenly (long, stupid story) got two hard reeds (Meason) for my bassoon and have been trying to break them in. I would get new ones, but it's actually a long way for me to go anywhere as well as a bit out of the way to get bassoon reeds at all. Also a long story. But, I am trying to deal with the reeds I have now.
These reeds seem pretty hard, and I have broken one of them in to the point where I can definitely stand playing on them, but there are still two terrible problems that sort of detract from that last statement.
For one, I can't play low notes. Notes below F3 I have problems getting out without playing overtones mistakenly. Notes above that F come out well for me though. For the low parts, I've just been taking them up an octave because that's how they're coming out mostly anyway.
I've tried loosening my embouchure a little bit, but not only do I feel this is wrong to change my embouchure (clarinet instinct), I can tell this is definitely affecting intonation. So I can't really loosen my embouchure. I mean, that's sort of just stupid, unless there is something I don't understand. I was just trying to get the note out, I mean. Just trying to be able to play those notes at all disregarding intonation (not while playing in the ensemble). But even if I do loosen my embouchure, the notes are very difficult to get out below F3.
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Post by bluebassoon on Mar 21, 2006 23:28:36 GMT -5
It sounds like the tube may be too round or the cane is too thick. If you soak your reed well, you can gently squeeze the tube with pliers at the second wire to flatten the tube. (This will probably open the reed tip too much, so you may also want to squeeze the first wire to get the tip opening to a comfortable distance.)
If the back of your reed and/or the rails are too thick and you are taking private lessons, show the reed to your teacher and they may be able to fix it with a reed knife.
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Post by trumpetguardgirl on Apr 4, 2006 22:48:18 GMT -5
I FINALLY got a bassoon today to play for the first time. Right now I'm just getting used to the reed and fingerings. I'll let you know eventually how it goes.
When trumpet players try bassoon... heh heh...
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Post by alrec on Apr 5, 2006 22:53:46 GMT -5
lol.
Here is some advice i have for you....trust me on it. bad habbits suck.
note to you. play top F (open and whisper key) with the bottom right 1 and 2 holes and the 3 key down.....trust me. and the e with bottom 2 and 3 down
(so you know- L1, 2 and 3 are left 1 hole, 2 hole, and 3 hole. (duh) and right 3 isnt a hole its a key, cause its hole is way down on the bottom of the bassoon.)
For "half holes" you have to move your finger all the way down to the key beneath that top hole. this goes double for the 1/2 hole G. What it does is puts back pressure on the opening, so only some of the air escapes that way.
any fingering is open to the adding of extra keys ecspeacially in the higher registers......even the low Bb. move the pinkey keys on the left hand to change the tone.
This is becuse the basson comes from a time where there was no standard method of playing, and they where inable to figure one out. SO it was common to manipulate fingerings.....now it is not tho. However as it stands it takes a trombone/baritone, a tenor sax, a cello, a clairinet, and a bass clairinet to get anywhere near the sound of the bassoon. Bassoon just dosent industrialize... the best is the fox models, becuse they incorporate the best techniques. the get all the parts premade and cut, then they assemble it themselves, making adjustments as neccesary. instead of an assembly line, or hand growing your bassoon like heckel does. industrial bassoons are for beginers....if you have a fox, heckel or puchner.......feel blessed. It isn't right if a bassoonist does not start on a cra**y horn. lol.
(Note, Heckel IS the BEST......so go ahead....pay 50 000 in euros, and front the tarriffs, and shipping. Puchners run around 18,000 i think, as do schrieber's and they are good. fox is just a little bit worse, but a lot cheaper (its worth 10,000 easy......i paid 5,500)
Most instruments give you slump in confidence when you are learning....the bassoon will kick your a@@. just hang in there, and relax. (if you arent getting lessons) take your time, ignore the fact that no one knows what you sound like. and just get through it.
finnally dont bother screwing with your bocal.....a 30th of an inch aint gonna change an 8 foot tube that much. use the mouth. front lip on the wire (or close) and bottom lip closer to the tip. then imagaine taking a belt in half "opening it, and snapping it" to seal your mouth around the reed (minus the force) another is imagaine zipping a zipper....and many other things.
So have fun, if you want to learn i recomend "best in class" becuse it has the best fingering chart (i can give you the ones it dosent have and make ammendments if you already have a good chart, no worries) and aint half bad. Since you arnt a baby new to music. rubanks elementary is the best.....try wissenborn if you dare. i dont recomend it.....not till you can be a strong player. that is it, welcome to the club. your status is "reedling" as you progress you will be confired with titles like crutch drip, then tenor swab, and finnally when you are no longer confined to the nest "bassoonling" when you can hold your own in band, you move up to bassoonist. ^_^ i like BSing. bassoonling is a joke between me, a friend and an ex gf. I hope you found my advice helpfull.
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Post by trumpetguardgirl on Apr 6, 2006 20:56:09 GMT -5
Thank you very much. That was inspirational and helpful.
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Post by arcticiceburg on Apr 23, 2006 21:19:05 GMT -5
lol. note to you. play top F (open and whisper key) with the bottom right 1 and 2 holes and the 3 key down.....trust me. and the e with bottom 2 and 3 down For "half holes" you have to move your finger all the way down to the key beneath that top hole. this goes double for the 1/2 hole G. What it does is puts back pressure on the opening, so only some of the air escapes that way. any fingering is open to the adding of extra keys ecspeacially in the higher registers......even the low Bb. move the pinkey keys on the left hand to change the tone. the best is the fox models, becuse they incorporate the best techniques. the get all the parts premade and cut, then they assemble it themselves, making adjustments as neccesary. instead of an assembly line, or hand growing your bassoon like heckel does. industrial bassoons are for beginers....if you have a fox, heckel or puchner.......feel blessed. It isn't right if a bassoonist does not start on a cra**y horn. lol. (Note, Heckel IS the BEST......so go ahead....pay 50 000 in euros, and front the tarriffs, and shipping. Puchners run around 18,000 i think, as do schrieber's and they are good. fox is just a little bit worse, but a lot cheaper (its worth 10,000 easy......i paid 5,500) So have fun, if you want to learn i recomend "best in class" becuse it has the best fingering chart (i can give you the ones it dosent have and make ammendments if you already have a good chart, no worries) and aint half bad. Since you arnt a baby new to music. rubanks elementary is the best.....try wissenborn if you dare. i dont recomend it.....not till you can be a strong player. I would disagree on a couple of points, but you don't have to take my advice, since I haven't yet completed a Masters in bassoon performance.... I have never come across that fingering for F in my college research on bassoon. I would guess that this is a fingering specifically for Alrec's bassoon, if it refuses to play in tune any other way. Likewise, additional keys can be added to improve intonation, but it largely depends on how bad of a school instrument you are dealing with. The resonance key (top left pinky) should always be used on the G at the top of the staff and on any note above high E flat. Also, flick keys (the second and third keys above the whisper key) should be incorporated into the fingerings for A, B flat, B, and occasionally C at the top of the staff. As implied, "half-holing" means covering approximately half of the hole, rather than moving your finger beneath the key. Occasionally, if notes still crack, you might use a "quarter-hole" fingering, but even then part of the hole is covered by the finger. If you want to make a down payment of several thousand dollars and wait five years for a Heckel bassoon (since that is how long the wait list is now), please do so. However, if you are wanting to own a professional model bassoon any time soon, a Fox with a Heckel bocal may be the best combination and there will be no noticeable difference between that and a Heckel (other than the price). If you are not starting your professional orchestral gig, however, you may want to own a Renard (an off-shoot of Fox) 220 or 240. Puchner (an off-shoot of Heckel) and Schreiber are also decent non-professional models. Avoid the Renard 51, as it is specifically designed for little kids and it does not include a thumb A flat key. Also, before buying a bassoon, please contact a college bassoon professor or professional bassoonist to get an idea of what the year's models are like. As far as method books go, "Primary Handbook for Bassoon" by Richard M. Polonchak may be the best method book for the beginning bassoonist that is not taking private lessons. The fingering chart is mostly accurate, although there aren't many alternate fingerings. This book also provides helpful tips and diagrams on everything from how to seat the seat strap to an introduction of tenor clef to a list of recommended resources. It also only costs about $10, so it's not that big of an investment. The "Weissenborn Method for Bassoon" is widely regarded as the "bassoonists' bible" and has a wide range of exercises in it for any playing level. It is suitable for anyone that is just beginning up through (and required for some) college bassoonists. It is worth the $20 or so, despite for the diagram of the bassoon in the front of the book being in need of an update. (The drawing is of a 21-key bassoon, most noticeably leaving out the whisper key, but this must have been the model available when Weissenborn came up with his method.
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Post by alrec on May 10, 2006 22:29:33 GMT -5
*bows in worship* i have only ever gotten f's and e's to play right with those fingerings (on a couple bassoons. My renard, 2 different olds, and one of my instructors admited that it helped the tuning a lot, and the other taught me that) admitidlly it aint worth it when im playing anything faster then allegro quarter notes (in common) and at that speed its only worth it if its an easy shot. those notes just sing when i play them whole, but it aint worth killing a run over a little bit of tone difference that isnt likelly to be important anyways.
I would like to point out that i said any fingering is open to adding fingers.....i will point out for you that i didnt say any fingering is open to removing fingers.....which for some bassoons might be neccesary, im not saying it is, but i like covering my basses.
also, both instructors are always chewing me out when im not using the quarter hole, on my Ab's and Gb's one who makes his living teaching music one on one. the other who is a graduated bassoonist. if you havent yet, i do recomend you try it, and look at the differnece. and the only thing that i get in trouble for more is not kickin my first finger down on g's. Your horn is your horn tho, as strange as it might act or play, and there is likelly to be other ways to fix the tone on a g then mine
what did you think about rubanks method? if you have seen it. im interested in this "primary handbook for bassoon" i had to learn a lot of those particulars (seat strap, etc.) from others and from experince (personally it is the best way to learn.....but is rather slow as far as rate of learning is concerned)
wessinborn IS the bassoonists bible. mine has kept me busy. and tho there are some beggining lessons in it, it is still better to start with some thing more basic.....unless you are a good player coming from another horn...in which case the beggining book still isnt a bad idea.
so you are in colledge, i'll be able to say the same in september. Tho my colledge dosent have any bassoon teachers or advisors, the trade off is i get one of the best music theory programs in the country. yeah, USC there 4 years get tutored by people from my soon to be colledge. other perks include a real semi pro orchestra. new york dosent have semi pro's.....you are playin pro, or flippin burgers.
Anyways, now that my pride is nice and swollen, you should PM me, i would rreally like to talk to an experinced bassoonist. and since blue bassoon is MIA i was thebest on here, but i think that you are now....i'll jsut have to change that wont I ^_^
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Post by arcticiceburg on May 11, 2006 18:46:28 GMT -5
The Rubank Method has probably the most difficult fingering chart to read out of the various method books I've reviewed. I think it was the method that stayed the longest in the fundamental F scale as well, but I would not necessarily recommend the Beginning method for anyone that has already been reading music for a couple of years (as most beginning bassoonists have). The rhythms in this book are Very geared towards beginners. The Rubank Method also lacks the teacher/student duets that I find to be very helpful in teaching a beginning bassoonist, since it seems like the best way to teach good intonation on a double reed is to have the new bassoonist match the teachers. The Advanced Rubank Method has some good etudes in it, as well as a couple of simple solos (perhaps appropriate for a junior-high aged soloist for solo and ensemble competition). I know that the All-Northwest Band auditions use material from the Advanced Rubank Method at specific tempos, so it must be viewed as a valid method book by whichever music educators decide upon the audition material.
If you have any other questions regarding bassoon or reeds arise, feel free to PM me, Alrec or anyone else for that matter.
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Post by bassoonist88 on May 14, 2006 15:49:08 GMT -5
I'm a relatively new player venturing into the unknown territory of the bassoon. I've only been playing for a few months (four I think) but I've meanaged to develop my tone well and I'm first chair (out of two but hey! Actually it's not hard second chair was a flautist and switched at the same time as me and I played sax originally). The one thing I don't understand about what you've said is about how you can make a med. soft reed last 4-5 months! That's insane! I play mediums from a variety of brands (Jones, Meason, Emerald, but MOSTLY Jones) and the reeds only last me about 3 weeks, if that! The string becomes unglued and begins to unwind. It's very annoying and it makes the reeds leak and become unaligned. Any suggestions on reed preservation techniques are GREATLY appreciated! Also, for those of you who ARE shelling out $13-18 for a single reed, on wwbw.com they sell Jones reeds for $7. GREAT DEAL! Marlin Lescher reeds are $5 or $6, I can't remember. It's a great way to save, so long as you buy 5 or 6 to cover the shipping cost, which is $5. Anyway, get back to me on the reed preservation issue, I'll be checking in.
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